Ontario Review Board
Re: Kaylin Lillian Thunder
ORB File No: 8805
Hearing held on: Friday, October 3, 2025
Place of hearing: Southwest Centre for Forensic Mental Health Care 401 Sunset Drive, St. Thomas
Pursuant to: Sections 672.48(1) and 672.47(1) of the Criminal Code;
Before: Alternate Chairperson: Mr. P. Capelle Members: Dr. J.C. Ferencz Dr. G. Stones Ms. C. Murray Mr. A. Mete
Parties Appearing: Accused: Kaylin L. Thunder Counsel: Ms. N.C. Circelli
The Person in charge of Hospital: Counsel: Mr. D. Rows
Attorney General of Ontario: Counsel: Ms. J. Zamprogna
REASONS FOR DISPOSITION
(Dated November 4, 2025)
Introduction
On March 17, 2025, Ms. Kaylin Thunder was found unfit to stand trial on account of mental disorder on charges of mischief under (x4), causing a disturbance, resisting a peace officer and obstructing a peace officer. She was admitted to the Southwest Centre for Forensic Mental Health Care (“Southwest”) on April 10, 2025, pursuant to a 60-day Treatment Order. At the conclusion of the treatment order, Ms. Thunder was found unfit to stand trial by the court on June 5, 2025, and ordered detained at Southwest pursuant to a warrant of committal pending her initial Ontario Review Board (the “ORB” or the “Board”) hearing.
On October 3, 2025, a panel of the Board convened an initial hearing pursuant to s. 672.47(1) of the Criminal Code of Canada. Ms. Thunder was in attendance and was represented by her counsel, Ms. Circelli.
Initial Position of the Parties
Ms. Zamprogna, on behalf of the hospital submitted that Ms. Thunder is unfit to stand trial and that a Detention Disposition is necessary and appropriate. Mr. Rows, on behalf of the Attorney General joined the hospital’s position. Ms. Circelli advanced the position that her client is fit and should be returned to Court, to deal with the charges against her.
Background and Alleged Index Offences
Ms. Thunder has a complex mental health history with multiple psychiatric diagnoses. The earliest hospitalization on record dates from 2017 following a suicide attempt. At the beginning of 2018, she relocated to Thunder Bay to live with her father, Jason Thunder, and her grandfather, Roy Thunder. In the years following this move, she required numerous hospitalizations as she continued attempting suicide approximately every few weeks.
Ms. Thunder's history of self-injury and suicide attempts date back to when she was 12 years old. Her self-harm behaviors included cutting herself on her forearms and ankles, taking random medications found in the home (such as diabetes medication, iron pills, pain relievers, and motion sickness medication), deliberately starving herself. Her suicide attempts varied widely and included trying to drown herself, stab herself, run into traffic, and overdose on over-the-counter medications, prescription drugs, and illegal drugs. In July 2022, she attempted suicide by injecting bleach into her body, which led to hospitalization. She was also taken to the hospital after being discovered lying in the middle of a road.
In addition to hospitalizations related to suicide attempts, Ms. Thunder was admitted to psychiatric care on several occasions for post-traumatic stress symptoms following multiple sexual assaults. Reports indicate she was a victim of child sex trafficking. In one particularly concerning incident, she was brought to emergency with multiple serious infections all over her body from being forcibly injected with drugs.
Ms. Thunder's mental health problems became significantly influenced by drug and alcohol use after the age 15. Beyond her hospital stays, she has been placed in multiple residential treatment facilities. However, she has a history of leaving these facilities without permission before completing her programs.
Ms. Thunder received outpatient psychiatric treatment from Dr. Linda Hussey, a psychiatrist in Sarnia, beginning in childhood. Records indicate she was seeing a counselor as early as six years of age. Later records indicate that as a young child, she struggled with obsessive-compulsive symptoms, including extreme religious beliefs and excessive handwashing. After moving back to Sarnia in 2021, she resumed treatment with Dr. Hussey. However, on September 29, 2021, 16-year-old Ms. Thunder chose to end treatment with Dr. Hussey because she was frustrated that the doctor had used a Mental Health Act Form 1 to hospitalize her against her will. At that time, she was considered capable of making her own treatment decisions and was prescribed two psychiatric medications: fluoxetine and quetiapine. About a year later, Ms. Thunder had returned to Dr. Hussey's care, and the doctor sought to transition her to an intra-muscular injection.
Ms. Thunder has been diagnosed with several conditions, including a learning disability, intellectual disability, substance use disorders, and borderline personality disorder (though she received this last diagnosis before turning 18). She has been treated with many different psychotropic medications over the years to manage her symptoms.
Throughout her medical records, healthcare providers have consistently documented trauma-related symptoms that affect how Ms. Thunder experiences reality. These include gaps in her memory, particularly around times when she engaged in suicidal behavior. Her behavior and personality can shift dramatically. At times, she is described as presenting as young and childlike, while at other times, guarded and confrontational. She has reported hearing internal voices that command her to hurt herself. At times, she also appears disoriented about who she is and what is happening around her.
The circumstances of the alleged index offences are taken from the Hospital Report, as follows:
“1. November 12, 2024: Mischief under $5000, FTC with release order, FTC with probation order
On [November 12, 2024], Ms. Thunder was alleged to have damaged property using a metal pipe in the apartment building where she had been living. One of her neighbours reported to the police that this behaviour was “normal” for Ms. Thunder. She had been previously bound by a probation order, dated May 7, 2024. As a result of this incident, the police went to Ms. Thunder’s apartment to advise her of the charges, but she slammed the door, resulting in the issued warrant.
- November 29, 2024: Mischief under $5000, Obstructing a peace officer
Ms. Thunder was arrested on November 28, 2024, due to an active bench warrant. The next day, while in custody, she refused to cooperate with the fingerprinting process. She spit on the floor and was noted to be yelling unintelligibly. She also damaged an instrument used to test for intoxication. As a result, she incurred additional charges.
- February 9, 2025: Mischief under $5000 x 2, Causing a disturbance, Resisting a peace officer, FTC with a release order, FTC with probation order x 2
On this date, Ms. Thunder was alleged to have thrown a rock through a man’s apartment window after she had asked him for a cigarette, and he refused. She was then described as having taken a fire extinguisher off the wall and thrown it at his door after striking the door multiple times. She then ripped a heater vent off the wall before running away to her apartment, locking the door to prevent police from entering. Forced entry was deemed necessary, and Ms. Thunder was placed under arrest with the charges listed above. She was described as resisting arrest, attempting to pull free, yelling, and swearing at officers. The next day, during the finger printing process, she was noted to be restless and agitated, having difficulty keeping her hand still. When directions were provided, she repeatedly yelled “get it done,” while pulling her arm away. While being escorted back to her cell, she attempted to strike the officer twice but was unsuccessful.”
Current Diagnoses
Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), with prominent dissociative features,
Dissociative Identity Disorder vs. Other Specified Dissociative Disorder (OSDD-1a),
Polysubstance Use Disorder,
Communication Disorder.
Evidence at Hearing
Ms. Zamprogna called Dr. Malka to testify. Dr. Malka stated she had been Ms. Thunder’s attending psychiatrist from the time of her April 10, 2025, admission to Southwest until August 12, 2025. That role is now filled by Dr. Mokhber. Dr. Malka adopted the contents of the Hospital Report.
Ms. Thunder is an Indigenous woman born in Wabakini, a community outside of Thunder Bay.
Dr. Malka diagnosed Ms. Thunder as suffering from a possible Dissociative Identity Disorder rooted in a history of childhood trauma. Ms. Thunder’s mental status since admission was initially very fearful; not wanting any male peers or staff around her.
Ms. Thunder tries to stay emotionally numbed during the day. Her symptoms are most impactful at night, consistent with her diagnosis. Prescribed medications have settled her daytime hypervigilance. Nighttime symptoms remain intrusive. She is currently treatment capable. Historically, she falls away from prescribed medications when discharged from hospital.
There has been no substance use/abuse since Ms. Thunder’s admission. Poly substance use disorder had been ongoing since she became a victim of human trafficking. It is premature to introduce substance use/abuse programming as Ms. Thunder currently spends her days in a state of emotional discharge. Dr. Malka testified that following Ms. Thunder's transfer of care to Dr. Mokhber, 25 milligrams of Haldol daily, has been added to her psychotropic medication regimen. Dr. Malka was unable to engage Ms. Thunder in a discussion regarding the index offence or risk potential.
Ms. Thunder continues to engage in Indigenous programming since her admission to Southwest. While her family has visited her in hospital, that relationship is complicated by history. Ms. Thunder’s likelihood of recidivism in the community is rated as high. At present, her risk can only be managed by a Detention Disposition. Her symptoms remain significant and she needs to develop adaptive skills prior to any form of community discharge.
Dr. Malka last assessed Ms. Thunder’s fitness to stand trial the day prior to this hearing. Ms. Thunder was only able to state that she had been charged with mischief. She advised that the role of the judge was to judge her and demonstrated no reality-based understanding of court proceedings as she disassociated during those discussions. Dr. Malka was unable to canvas Ms. Thunder’s understanding of taking an oath as the discussion terminated prior to that opportunity.
Dr. Malka opined that Ms. Thunder could not rationally instruct counsel as she will only state she wants to be released. When confronted with the reality of her current situation, she cannot tolerate the subject matter and will end the conversation. Dr. Malka opined that it is possible that Ms. Thunder could tolerate the courtroom setting although she could not meaningfully participate in the proceeding.
Questioned by Ms. Circelli, Dr. Malka stated that she was unaware when Ms. Thunder last communicated with her criminal lawyer. Dr. Malka agreed with the suggestion that the preparation of a Gladue Report would be beneficial in advance of Ms. Thunder’s next Ontario Review Board hearing.
A panel member noted that Ms. Thunder appeared quite sedated. Dr. Malka responded that Ms. Thunder’s medications are still being adjusted and that the hearing environment could be triggering. Dr. Malka added that Ms. Thunder’s inability to be present could impact her treatment and return to fitness. Finally, Dr. Malka opined that Ms. Thunder could not tolerate a cognitive assessment at present because she cannot engage for more than 5 to 10 minutes.
The panel in its inquisitorial role requested that Dr. Mokhber, Ms. Thunder’s treating psychiatrist since August 10th 2025, testify and clarify some areas of concern surrounding Ms. Thunder’s time in hospital from the time of her transfer to Dr. Mokhber’s care to the date of this hearing.
Dr. Mokhber stated that since taking over Ms. Thunder’s care, she has added 25 milligrams of Haldol, daily, as well as 75 milligrams of amitriptyline, daily. The amitriptyline will be titrated upward to an eventual dosage of 150 milligrams daily.
Dr. Mokhber testified that Ms. Thunder appears groggy because she was given a PRN of 5 milligrams of Haldol the night before this hearing as well as 5 milligrams in the hours preceding today's hearing. The current order is for 5 milligrams every four hours as needed.
Dr. Mokhber stated that her patient’s sedated presentation at today's hearing is not typical. When Ms. Thunder arrived on the unit, agitation and aggressive behaviours were common, especially at night when Ms. Thunder claimed that people were entering her room to rape her. Dr. Mokhber noted a history of trauma for this patient. Ms. Thunder suffers from a psychotic disorder of yet undetermined type. With the use of psychotropic medications, the treatment team has managed some of her symptoms. She can now sleep a couple of hours at night and is more engaged during the day. Amitriptyline was added to address her diagnosis of chronic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).
Ms. Thunder suffers from major past trauma, psychosis and PTSD. She is currently the only female patient on the unit. Nursing staff stay with her whenever she is out of her room. Ms. Thunder was recently seen playing cards with a male co-patient which represents a marked improvement. Dr. Mokhber last assessed Ms. Thunder’s fitness on the Monday prior to this hearing. Her patient’s fitness has not really improved since admission. Ms. Thunder still has no reality-based understanding of court proceedings. She tolerated this most recent assessment for 15 minutes although ongoing redirection was needed for her to stay on topic as she kept asking about discharge. Ms. Thunder resisted answering Taylor test questions. She was, however, able to state that her lawyer is supposed to help her but thereafter she drifted. Dr. Mokhber agreed with the conclusion as set out at page 29 of the Hospital Report which states:
“In summary, although Ms. Thunder was able to state in simple terms that she was facing charges and was in hospital, she lacked the ability to engage in meaningful, reality-based communication about her case. She could not sustain conversations of sufficient length to consult with counsel, demonstrated illogical reasoning about discharge, frequently misattributed her internal experiences to others, and had amnesia for her own behaviour. Attempts to discuss her legal situation rapidly led to dysregulation, angry outbursts, or abrupt withdrawal, particularly when her autonomy was perceived to be challenged. These impairments made her unable to understand the proceedings in a meaningful way or to instruct counsel, and therefore she was unfit to stand trial.”
Dr. Mokhber agreed that Ms. Thunder requires greater symptom relief before fitness can be addressed. Building trust with Ms. Thunder is essential. Dr. Mokhber attempts to speak with her two to three times a day. A psychologist has started working with Ms. Thunder. Daily education vis-à-vis fitness has been initiated based on Ms. Thunder’s tolerance with cards being used as a teaching tool. Consideration to transfer Ms. Thunder to the Hummingbird Lodge within the North Bay Regional Health Centre has not begun as that unit requires patients being able to tolerate 45-minute sessions prior to a possible transfer and Ms. Thunder is not there yet.
Closing Observations
Ms. Zambrogna submitted that both Dr. Malka and Dr. Mokhber support the finding that Ms. Thunder is unfit. She lacks the ability to engage in a reality-based discussion about her situation. Ms. Thunder could not understand proceedings, recall information, communicate effectively with counsel or tolerate the process where she required to interact. Owing to her current symptoms, she cannot absorb education regarding fitness. A Detention Disposition remains necessary and appropriate. Although she remains impacted by her symptoms, Ms. Thunder is beginning to engage with the treatment team. Her insight is developing but limited and subject to relapse.
Ms. Thunder’s diagnosis is not completely developed. As she has no stable community housing, there is currently no other option but for a Detention Disposition. Ms. Thunder is amenable to treatment and the hope is that she will build on her strengths over the next year.
Mr. Rows reiterated that he continued to join with the hospital's recommendation.
Ms. Circelli reiterated that her client wishes to be discharged and is fit. She noted that Dr. Malka had not included a psychotic disorder in her list of diagnoses. Vis-à-vis fitness, Ms. Thunder was able to answer most of the Taylor test questions, however, any instructions to counsel that she might provide are not rooted in a reality-based understanding. In the event Ms. Thunder is found unfit, a Gladue Report should be ordered.
Earlier this year the Supreme Court of Canada released its decision in R. Bharwani, 2025 SCC 26, which provides the decisive interpretation of the definition of “unfit to stand trial” within the Criminal Code as well as the application of the “fitness test”.
Before the Supreme Court of Canada, Counsel for Mr. Bharwani argued that the fitness test required an accused:
to have analytical capacity, meaning that the accused must possess the ability to make rational decisions in the conduct of their defence
The Supreme Court of Canada dismissed the above noted argument, stating the following at paragraph 6, vis-à-vis “fitness to stand trial”:
… an accused is fit to stand trial when they are able to make and communicate reality-based decisions in the conduct of their defence or instruct counsel to do so. Conducting a defence includes making decisions that an accused must always make personally and those which relate to the exercise of their right to full answer and defence, such as decisions about pleas, the mode of trial, selection of counsel, whether to testify, whether to call or cross-examine witnesses, and closing submissions, among others. The capacity required to make those decisions is a reality-based understanding of the nature or object of the proceedings and their possible consequences, an ability to understand the available options and their consequences, and an ability to select between those options when making decisions. Fitness to stand trial does not require an accused to make decisions in their best interests. Rather, it requires making decisions based on an understanding of reality that is not overwhelmed by delusions, hallucinations, or other symptoms of their mental disorder. Transient mental health symptoms do not necessarily compromise an accused’s ability to conduct a defence. The focus is always on assessing the extent to which an accused’s mental disorder impairs their understanding of reality when making and communicating decisions in their defence.
Ms. Thunder’s fitness to stand trial was assessed by Dr. Malka within 24 hours of this hearing and by Dr. Mokhber four days prior.
The findings of both doctors substantiate that Ms. Thunder remains unable to demonstrate a reality-based understanding of court proceedings. She was unable to tolerate a discussion addressing this subject matter for more than 10 minutes. During these brief interactions Ms. Thunder was unable to demonstrate a reality-based understanding of court proceedings. She disassociated due to her inability to tolerate the subject matter which led to behavioural dysregulation and angry outbursts. Ms. Thunder could only relate that she faces mischief charges and wants to be released.
Dr. Malka opined that Ms. Thunder could not rationally instruct counsel as she will only state she wants to be released. When confronted with the reality of her current situation, she cannot tolerate the subject matter and will end the conversation. Dr. Malka opined that it is possible that Ms. Thunder could tolerate the courtroom setting although she could not meaningfully participate in courtroom proceeding.
At present, Ms. Thunder is clearly unable to understand the consequences of a Court proceedings, unable to advocate on her own behalf let alone work effectively with counsel. Ms. Circelli advanced the position that her client was able to answer most of the Taylor test questions put to her. The panel would respectfully disagree as the evidence does not support this contention. Ms. Thunder’s eventual fitness is contingent upon a reality-based understanding of court proceedings as was conceded by Ms. Circelli. As this understanding is absent, Ms. Thunder is currently unfit to stand trial. Finally, the panel was concerned by Ms. Thunder’s groggy presentation and Dr. Mokhber’s explanation that her patient was provided with a PRN of 5 mg the evening before and received the same dose in the hours preceding this hearing. While Ms. Thunder may have been apprehensive about attending her Ontario Review Board hearing a similar degree of sedation is also unlikely to permit her to meaningfully participate in the education required for her to be made fit to stand trial.
The panel wishes Ms. Thunder well in her recovery and community reintegration.
DATED this 4th day of November 2025, at the City of Toronto, in the Toronto Region.
Mr. P. Capelle Alternate Chairperson Office of the Registrar Ontario Review Board